tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post3409747518128038121..comments2012-02-22T06:44:21.775-08:00Comments on PHILOSOPHY OF JUDAISM: Some "Meta Questions"Aaron Segal, Sam Lebens, Dani Rabinowitzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12072138513573624712noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-65195749519288701712011-08-16T09:24:41.268-07:002011-08-16T09:24:41.268-07:00Alex,
Thanks for those comments, which I found ver...Alex,<br />Thanks for those comments, which I found very interesting and helpful. Just a few quick clarificatory questions.Firstly, I don;t quite follow what you mean when you say "Nonetheless, such a reading is not as probable as a reading that incorporates some degree of dualism." Are you assuming some a priori commitment to dualism? Or assuming some high prior probability for dualismDani Rabinowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02686037316872541259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-69528388460831087712011-08-14T07:54:36.389-07:002011-08-14T07:54:36.389-07:00I think I was a bit too strident intiatially.
I t...I think I was a bit too strident intiatially.<br /><br />I take the point that on a whole host of issues, the cannonical texts may well establish a range of acceptable philosophical positions. I appreciate Alexander Pruss' comment.<br /><br />But, it's still generally the case that the texts give us a great deal of philosophical freedom within certain goal-posts, and, if something is Sam Lebenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11232919028270795728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-63446367674259577502011-08-11T08:31:19.729-07:002011-08-11T08:31:19.729-07:00Let me suggest a possibility. Even when the texts...Let me suggest a possibility. Even when the texts by themselves underdetermine a philosophical position, such as on the relationship between G-d and time, it may still be the case that:<br /> a. The texts affect the <em>probability</em> of a philosophical position.<br /> b. The texts <em>plus</em> reason are sufficient to determine a philosophical position, or a range of philosophical positions.Alexander R Prusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05989277655934827117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-71916060077270719832011-08-02T04:18:45.676-07:002011-08-02T04:18:45.676-07:00Hi Eli,
With regard to your last question: I take...Hi Eli,<br /><br />With regard to your last question: I take it that there are many plausible interpretations of the texts, and despite their plausibility, some of them are just wrong. Some of the plausible interpretations are mutually exclusive.<br />But, my belief is that the right interpretation(s) will have to be comaptible with the truth, because, I believe that the Torah is true. Many true Sam Lebenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11232919028270795728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-53743924938281904782011-08-01T19:58:46.502-07:002011-08-01T19:58:46.502-07:00I think you are reading a little to much into what...I think you are reading a little to much into what I was trying to say. I do not think we should look to the texts alone for our answers, I agree with you fully that we must "engage in pure philosophical speculation". At the same time, however, I think that the attempt "to reconcile the truth uncovered by careful speculation and the truth contained in the text" is an extremelyEli Leib Rubinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07437759920374554253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-62812637392104431082011-07-30T11:44:10.295-07:002011-07-30T11:44:10.295-07:00Let me clear about where I do think it makes sense...Let me clear about where I do think it makes sense to talk about Jewish philosophy:<br /><br />1) In the sense that there is English philosophy, and there is Greek philosophy, there is Jewish philosophy. English philosophy was born of a certain culture and language, as was Greek philosophy and Jewish philosophy. I am convinced that a great many contemporary philosophical conundrums would be Sam Lebenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11232919028270795728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-75079518627818050442011-07-28T22:40:31.943-07:002011-07-28T22:40:31.943-07:00"I'm afraid my post was not about God and..."I'm afraid my post was not about God and time; rather it was an attempt to formulate a larger issue."<br /><br />Whether we are talking about G-d and time specifically, or a broader question of how to arrive at a "Jewish" perspective of any philosophical issue based on traditional texts. I think the point remains the same: 1) It is impossible to draw conclusions based on Eli Leib Rubinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07437759920374554253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-31500350233824894482011-07-28T16:13:32.121-07:002011-07-28T16:13:32.121-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ty Goldschmidthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14518529885784346014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-64362558346412094032011-07-28T14:20:55.197-07:002011-07-28T14:20:55.197-07:00Dani writes, "God and time is an important is...Dani writes, "God and time is an important issue, my concerns were much wider, as Sam's post indicates."<br /><br />In an effort to be brief, maybe I was not as clear as I could have been. Your philosophical vehicle of "God and time" was to get at either a or b options. I attempted to demonstrate the fundamental decision tree for a rational believer. Without text we canAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-37347654079300932432011-07-28T13:21:21.211-07:002011-07-28T13:21:21.211-07:00Tyron,
Might there be a sytematic methodology by w...Tyron,<br />Might there be a sytematic methodology by which to determine which cases are which? And if not, what does that say about Jewish theology? And if yes, what is it?<br />DaniDani Rabinowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02686037316872541259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-7463252476969702232011-07-28T12:34:16.444-07:002011-07-28T12:34:16.444-07:00Eli and Dallas
Thank you for your comments. I'...Eli and Dallas<br /><br />Thank you for your comments. I'm afraid my post was not about God and time; rather it was an attempt to formulate a larger issue. I apologize if it came across in a way that made readers think that I wished to enter into a discussion about time. Whilst God and time is an important issue, my concerns were much wider, as Sam's post indicates.<br /><br />Sam, thank Dani Rabinowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02686037316872541259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-40979838141607971102011-07-28T09:55:47.404-07:002011-07-28T09:55:47.404-07:00But, personally, my main ground for excitement abo...But, personally, my main ground for excitement about this way of viewing things runs as follows: We do have to have faith that the Torah is true, and that the autonomous halakhic system that it gave rise to is binding; but, when it comes to substantive issues of metaphysics, there is huge indeterminacy. And thus, we're lead to the observation drawn by Charles Foster in his recent blog (http:/Sam Lebenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11232919028270795728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-75463467228712751052011-07-28T09:55:33.164-07:002011-07-28T09:55:33.164-07:00But this might lead us to be dishearterned. It see...But this might lead us to be dishearterned. It seems as if the text isn't really giving us any solid guidance. We accept that it's true, but we're allowed to be totally agnostic about its significance, reconcilling our interpretations with whatever reason happens to deliver. What hope does this give us of discovering a truely JEWISH philosophy?<br /><br />SG's first response to Sam Lebenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11232919028270795728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-40538832256397215592011-07-28T09:54:50.579-07:002011-07-28T09:54:50.579-07:00Dani, I love the question you're posing.
It m...Dani, I love the question you're posing.<br /><br />It might sound disappointing to accept the point and state that the cannonical sources are semantically indeterminate between a whole, possibliy infinite, range of alternative philosophies. But I think it rather exciting.<br /><br />It's not that we can disagree with the prophets, as you consider in point (b), it's that we have a Sam Lebenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11232919028270795728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-48488037575291335822011-07-28T06:57:22.378-07:002011-07-28T06:57:22.378-07:00Before we talk about G-d's relationship with t...Before we talk about G-d's relationship with time, we must talk about the nature of G-d. It seems to me that the nature of G-d is multifaceted, and hence the relationship of G-d and time is also multifaceted. Consequently, we may find different verses that can be interpreted in different and sometimes contradictory ways, because they are in fact revering to different levels of Divine Eli Leib Rubinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07437759920374554253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-74789298720290281972011-07-27T06:56:10.988-07:002011-07-27T06:56:10.988-07:00Dani Rabinowitz writes, "So if one reads the ...Dani Rabinowitz writes, "So if one reads the philosophical literature on God's relationship to time..." <br /><br />Perhaps defining time would be helpful. For example, a physicist may say time is the measurement of the change in the relationship between particles. Since there is a succession of moments, time is said to move forward. Now, is the Creator of the first cause of all Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519695949645288674.post-84552506063307780492011-07-27T06:53:26.054-07:002011-07-27T06:53:26.054-07:00I would suspect that this differs from case to cas...I would suspect that this differs from case to case?Ty Goldschmidthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14518529885784346014noreply@blogger.com